CES DLC Issues Review

City Economic Simulation DLC for Capitalism Lab
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David
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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The following are the details on the web page about the correlation between the university research and employment. What kind of additional information you are looking for?

By the way, the macro economic simulation involves more complex formula and more parameters than micro economic simulations (e.g. logistics, supply/demand). This is similar to the real world where there is more subtlety in macro economics.

http://www.capitalismlab.com/university ... ation.html

You may sponsor a university to research on a specific industry to boost the city's competitiveness rating of the selected industry.

The city competitiveness report shows the following information:

The city's Competitiveness Rating of the industry.
The higher the city's competitiveness rating, the larger number of people are employed in the local industry. When the city's competitiveness is weak, it will have to import large volumes of goods, hurting employment in the manufacturing sector.

The Global Competitiveness Rating of the industry.
When the city's competitiveness rating exceeds the global competitiveness rating, the city will be in a position to export its products to the worldwide market.

The city's volume of export of the industry.
There will be export when the city's competitiveness rating exceeds the global competitiveness rating. Strong export will improve the city's employment significantly.
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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It's not University Research itself providing a lot of job opening, it's the research leading to higher competitiveness to certain product class, making city export much more products of that class, so the city's "local businesses" in term hire more workers to produce these products leading to more jobs. And because of this, it's not an immediate effect, only when the city's competitiveness exceed global average when you start to see the result. It might take months to years, and really start to show when competitiveness of many product classes far exceed the global average.
Nice write-up! I expanded the section on University Research on the CapLab web site with the strategy tips you wrote above.
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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megapolis wrote: Unfortunately that's my problem with Capitalism Lab in general. There's too many assumptions in one single statement and no raw numbers. If the things you say are true (please don't be offended) then there are certain numbers that are hardcoded in the game and are not described. I use to ask David for the numbers of this kind but unfortunately never have the answers. Without detailed explanation from David with dependencies, numbers, formulas and all that stuff I see this University research thing rather useless.

Will try to explain it another way. We are playing Capitalism. Not planned economy, not philantropy, only capitalism. In this game if I invest in something, I need to understand outcome of this investment and measure it. In case of University research outcome I cannot measure it. As a result this investment is useless.
Well, I think it is just trial and error, and it works because we have tested that it does work as intended. Before using research projects, I can only achieve about 5k to 20k a year of population growth, and I previously also thought it is only the expenses of research projects causing the hiring of more workers. But after comparing spamming public facilities, with having research projects of different levels of budget, it is pretty obvious it is the competitiveness differences making the job openings increase dramatically. I have even tried turning off research projects, and only use landmarks to push competitiveness alone, and it does show the increase of job openings is due to competitiveness increase (over global average). After I learned this, I was able to grow population from 500k to 2 million in just 24 years, with over 60k growth a year on average, some years even have near 90k a year of immigration, huge difference when running at least 10 researches and later on full 22 universities' researches (once reaching full competitiveness in all classes, the increase of immigration stop being so effective, and the growth from 2.5m to 3m were pretty tough, with just basic natural growth rate)
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megapolis
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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Thanks for the clarification about University research. It was a useful insight. The game becomes more complicated and I am still learning new mechanics. But on the other hand I still insist that I don't have enough information related to University research. I'll explain it this way. Ok. I was told that city competiveness has an impact on city's workplaces and its exports to the global market. But I don't know the size of this global market. Is is useful to invest in Tobacco Products research or this market is dying and maxing out city competiveness will create 1-2 new workplaces in a 1m city?
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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megapolis wrote:Thanks for the clarification about University research. It was a useful insight. The game becomes more complicated and I am still learning new mechanics. But on the other hand I still insist that I don't have enough information related to University research. I'll explain it this way. Ok. I was told that city competiveness has an impact on city's workplaces and its exports to the global market. But I don't know the size of this global market. Is is useful to invest in Tobacco Products research or this market is dying and maxing out city competiveness will create 1-2 new workplaces in a 1m city?
That's an interesting question, I never tried so late in the game to see the difference of export and competitiveness creating job openings. We should do some experiments to find out. The easiest way might be to mod an existing product and change its base demand to lowest possible, and see what happened. Also mod a product the other way around and see if opposite effect would happen.
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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eleaza wrote:
megapolis wrote:Thanks for the clarification about University research. It was a useful insight. The game becomes more complicated and I am still learning new mechanics. But on the other hand I still insist that I don't have enough information related to University research. I'll explain it this way. Ok. I was told that city competiveness has an impact on city's workplaces and its exports to the global market. But I don't know the size of this global market. Is is useful to invest in Tobacco Products research or this market is dying and maxing out city competiveness will create 1-2 new workplaces in a 1m city?
That's an interesting question, I never tried so late in the game to see the difference of export and competitiveness creating job openings. We should do some experiments to find out. The easiest way might be to mod an existing product and change its base demand to lowest possible, and see what happened. Also mod a product the other way around and see if opposite effect would happen.
I finally found a place where you can see exports split by Product Class. It's a right bar on Cities -> Industries page. That's great but it's only a bar, not the number.
On the other hand amount of people employed in an industry is unknown.

But here we also come to another question. A couple of years ago I have calculated that all the products that we produce account for 10-12% of city economy. That's why I liked the idea of Realworld mod so much. On the other hand making of this mod was such a big problem and amount of goods was so big that it made a game less playable. Long lists of products and suppliers became ridiculously long. But back to the question. The question is that since one particular product class covers only 1% of a city's GDP, why should I spend millions to create 2000-3000 workplaces for a limited amount of time? Fortunately game economy works in a different way and unfortunately this way is unknown to us, players.
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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megapolis wrote: I finally found a place where you can see exports split by Product Class. It's a right bar on Cities -> Industries page. That's great but it's only a bar, not the number.
On the other hand amount of people employed in an industry is unknown.
That's exactly what I was saying, we can tested it by modding a product's demand and check for ourselves. Asking questions is good and all, but finding answers is more fun. Don't expect everything to be handed to in a silver plate.
megapolis wrote: But back to the question. The question is that since one particular product class covers only 1% of a city's GDP, why should I spend millions to create 2000-3000 workplaces for a limited amount of time? Fortunately game economy works in a different way and unfortunately this way is unknown to us, players.
Increasing GPD growth? Make export income higher? Keeps a city in good economic status? Growing population faster? Making R&D much faster and efficient? It's government that's spending the money mimicking real life Colleges and Universities by giving grants to them? Even in game balance perspective, a good way to make a choice between making cash and not spending it at all, or spending it to invest in a better future? And It's the best way to grow a city to 2 million under 30 years?
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Re: CES DLC Issues Review

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3. Link to save game where I did not have enough party members because everyone was busy mayoring: https://yadi.sk/d/SJWLuBBl39ssfV

4. Link to save of 120 years empty run (release version). You can find there that several commercial buildings built on the day 1 can do the same profit as all other AI companies because of high advertising spending. https://yadi.sk/d/KM_lTc0f39srdQ
The above issues have been fixed in the latest patch v4.4.05.
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